How Did I Not Know You Had Written a Book?

That’s how a recent text message from my daughter began. She went on to write, “I knew you had talked about doing it, but I had no idea you had already done it.”

Here’s the reply I shared with her:

“That is another book that I am working on, which I have talked about. Larry Hargrave did most of the work on the completed one. He used major sections out of my blog and other writings of mine, so that is why it is complete. A group he networked with wanted a “training manual”, so Larry asked my permission.

I hadn’t really thought of making a post about it since it was written for that specific group. The Final Command Director of Communications found out about the new book and wrote about it in the monthly newsletter. A guy I am coaching read the newsletter and asked me, “When are you going to post about it on Facebook?” I figured maybe I ought to do that.

Sort of an odd way to become an author!”

Rachel, my daughter, followed up, “Hahahaha! That’s funny! Definitely something to post about!”

Obviously I did not become an author with any grand illusions of becoming wealthy by having a “best selling” book. Like many other things I have done, I was just trying to help a friend help some other people—people I only met via a Zoom teleconference.

Fame and fortune are not found via Disciple Making Movements. You really have to anticipate that most of the beneficiaries of Multiplication may never know your name. If you are looking for the limelight, you are likely to be sadly mistaken.

In case you are interested, here’s what the cover looks like:

You can buy it via Amazon. Larry Hargrave and I are listed as the authors, but Larry did the hard work behind getting it written and everything related to getting it published. Here’s the link for purchasing a copy:

https://a.co/d/8SENbvK

If you get a copy and find it worthwhile please write a review and recommend it to other people. Our prayer is that it assists others to enter the exciting world of making disciples in the Jesus style of disciple making.

Building Bridges is hard work!

Starting March of 2022 WordPress (the host of this blog) will be sending one word prompts to everyone like me. While I sort of scoffed at the idea when I read the header to the email announcing the idea, I must admit this meme has sparked some reflections. Maybe they will be worthy of a post.

For several years of my childhood, my four brothers and I lived with our paternal grandparents. We were able to spend a bit more time than usual with their generation as a result. One of our favorite places to visit was the remote farm of our grandfather’s sister and her husband. Visiting Uncle Lonnie and Aunt Mae was always an enjoyable adventure. Traveling to their house required fording a creek–in the vehicle because there was no bridge. The driver had to pull down into the stream of water and hope it was not deep enough to enter at the bottom of the doors!

A bridge is a means of access, thus it serves as a symbol of making contact. One of the largest global missions sending agencies has named their outreach division to international students by this name in its plural form.

When the Final Command team (of which I am a part) was launched back in 2011 we worked on a new website and logo design. The graphic designer who developed the current logo led us through a questionnaire which tried to locate a single word which might lend itself to a graphic presentation. The one word was the word “bridges.”

Our initial vision/mission statement affirmed, “Final Command Ministries exists to glorify God and obey Jesus’ final command by facilitating Church Planting Movements among least reached peoples. Our mission was three-fold: deploy and catalyze cross-cultural ministry teams in unreached areas, mobilize, train and equip existing churches and ministries in effective disciple making (paradigm shift) and help existing compassion ministries develop a disciple making capacity.”

We recognized that we did not presume to have all the knowledge of what God wanted to accomplish. We did not have the manpower, experience or resources needed. Our goal was to build bridges that assisted nearer neighbors to reach the unreached rather than waiting on Western missions agencies to send workers.

The graphic designer developed the arch as a symbol of those bridging efforts. We have not done a good job telling that story. Most newer members of the organization have no idea what lies behind the logo design (just a poor imitation of the Nike swoop)!

How can we do a better job of getting the Gospel out to places where it has not penetrated, yet? That has been our compelling issue. Because God has always led us to attempt that in conjunction with existing churches and compassion ministries, our focus has been on training, coaching and mentoring the coalition of the willing from within. We have not spent much time or energy on trying to persuade the resistant. Much like the strategy of looking for households of peace, we are always looking for potential multipliers–believers who believe God really does want multiplication to happen today.

Finding these two categories of influencers often demand bridge building. It is never easy. The terrain is often precarious, dangerous and the process always seems slower than we wished! But God has been faithful and we give him the praise and glory for the outcomes he has produced.

Reflecting on 2021

The second year of COVID proved quite challenging. It began with my dad living with us for the first few days. He had COVID late in 2020 and spent two rounds in the hospital with a brief time between at his home. He lost so much strength he needed rehab and we were committed to making sure he did not have to go to a nursing home since we could not visit him there. The loneliness in the hospital had been so hard on him.

Right as he was making improvements he had a massive stroke and died a few days later. His death has impacted me in ways I did not anticipate. Debra and I both are thankful for the time we had with him while he sought to recover. 2021 began with this deep loss.

Daddy was an insurance agent. That’s how he supported our family for my whole life. So he left me some money in a policy. I had been thinking about purchasing a wood turning lathe. Now I had the means to get a really high quality machine.

My dad loved buying, trading and owning automobiles (at his death he owned three). It was the one thing he invested significant money into purchasing. But he probably enjoyed selling them almost as much as buying. He likely would have been happy if I had invested that money in a car, but that was his deal, not mine.

I had to order my lathe and wait for it to be shipped. I used the time to watch lots of YouTube videos on wood turning. While I have done lots of types of woodworking since taking classes for three years high school, I had done very little turning and never turned any bowls.

Robust American Beauty wood turning lathe

My lathe arrived in April and I started turning almost immediately. It took even longer for my sharpening system to arrive, but I completed a few bowls while waiting. Here’s the one out of that early group which garnered the most comments:

A small ironic twist dawned on me one day as I was turning. My dad was not mechanically inclined. While patient with people, he could become very impatient with projects where he had to use his hands. Even as a kid I had to remove destroyed oil filters from under his cars. Daddy did not give me my love for woodworking. But he did keep the surviving piece I made for my high school senior project–a small oak table.

I took three years of woodworking in high school. My school only offered two years. No, I did not fail and retake one year. I loved it so much I requested an extra year and bartered with the instructor to make it possible. During my second year I noted that he cut out all the wood parts which went into a lamp that the first year students all had to build. I offered to cut out all those parts for him before I did any other project. Combine that with me having a second study hall at the time the second year class met and he was agreeable if the principal and guidance counselor were okay. They approved the idea.

Because of my desire to take an extra year, Mr. Eslick thought of me when he was asked to recommend a student for a summer job at a local guitar factory. This commendation helped me get the summer job, while I attended Bible college. Now I have come full circle.

The lathe is made by Robust. This particular model is the American Beauty. In their promotional materials and parts listing it is referred to as the AB. That was my dad’s given name. His mom almost died during delivery. The midwife recommended he be named AB. The first letter came from his mom’s first name, Annie. The second letter came from his dad’s second name, Benton. There is something very appropriate in all of this. While not the gift Daddy would have ever selected for me, it does remind me of him often.

I plan to retire from my position as Global Coach at the end of 2022. In 2023 I anticipate doing a lot more woodturning on my AB.

Q&A–How Do You Start New “Spiritual Outposts”

Original Question: “In regards to your mention of ‘spiritual outposts’ did you have families physically move to new neighborhoods, or did you build the outposts around new Christians already living in those areas?”

Answer: Enough time has passed that I probably need to remind you of the context I am addressing in this protracted series of Q&A blog posts. During May 13-16 I was invited to speak during a four-day digital gathering, the Salt & Light International Leaders Conference. After each day’s presentation on Disciple Making Movements there was a Q&A session and leaders submitted questions in writing and the host selected some of those questions to ask us live. Many more questions came in than we could address in the time allotted. I offered to address those question via my blog. While I warned this process might be slow, I have obviously stretched this out far more than I anticipated. I begin again in my efforts to address these.

Roy Moran and I each took two days to present material which would hopefully prompt participants to seek out coaching in implementing the best of DMM strategies and prompt people to seek coaching to get to multi-generational replication. Sadly, enough time has passed that I do not recall the specific statement where the phrase “spiritual outposts” would have occurred, but I am confident I can address this question and hopefully be helpful.

When we encounter different strategies than what we are using, which appear to be potentially beneficial, we generally begin to explore how we can add those to what we are already doing. If taking a new approach means we have to ditch everything we are already doing, then we usually pass on the new thing. This is true whether you prefer Apple, Microsoft or Linux. It is true for much of the Evangelical world which bifurcates evangelism and discipleship (which primarily is equivalent to “spiritual formation”).

Evangelism in the Global North is primarily envisioned as being initiated by people who intentionally move to a new region and begin to form meaningful relationships with lost people in the new places where we “live, work, play and learn.” If we identify a people group, city, village or other place where no one knows Jesus, then we raise up a team to move there and begin to allow the light to shine through their lives and words into that area. Many years ago this strategy has been referred to as “swarming” where a new queen and worker bees leave an existing hive and “swarm” in a new area in hopes of starting a new hive with its own unique ecosystem.

The mention of “spiritual outpost” harkens to this mental imagery. Biblical commentators who advocate such a “swarming” strategy might point to Rome’s strategy of gifting retiring soldiers and government officials with land grants in the outer regions of the empire. Philippi, for example, was a Roman colony which was shaped by this approach. Maybe the advancement of the Kingdom of Heaven can be furthered by such an intentional strategy.

Disciple Making Movements are not in opposition to teams of disciple makers intentionally moving to pockets of darkness within their own people group in this way, but this is not how the first “spiritual outposts” arise. It is also not the strategy of Paul and his disciple making band in the book of Acts. His approach was to always look for a local group into which the gospel would be planted and they would become the “spiritual outpost.” Outsiders can and should be catalysts. Insiders become the best evangelists. We are not inherently opposed to “swarming,” but we are not envisioning this being the approach being used by a team of outsiders. From my reading of Acts, the longest Paul stayed in any of the places where churches were started was in Ephesus and he was there somewhere between two years and three months and three years. I believe he stayed there that length of time because his work was replicated in other cities within the province of Asia as he discipled workers to faith and then they went out as disciple makers throughout the region.

12 Year Anniversary!

Recently WordPress notified me that I launched this blog 12 years ago. That’s hard to wrap my brains around in some ways. I do remember meeting with my friend, John Mark Hicks, to ask for information about creating it. As always, his counsel was helpful.

If you subscribe to this blog, you know it has been an up and down journey. There have been seasons when I wrote consistently. My general pattern has been to post an article each Tuesday and Thursday morning. But there have been significant gaps in my follow through on that goal. Even lately I have struggled some with posting consistently.

There are 220+ posts available on this blog. Most visitors check out two or three of them. Current posts draw fresh engagement with my writing. But I am writing this post to encourage you to check out some of my older posts. Here’s the link to an early post that I recommend you read:

https://dmmcoach.com/2012/09/18/hearing-god/

Discerning what God is saying to you and then responding in obedience is critical! God really does expect those who know him to listen to what he is saying.

Thanks if you have been following this blog for a long time, or if just a short while. I would love to hear from you, especially if we have not communicated directly with one another in a while. What pieces have been helpful? Challenging?

Thanks for giving me an outlet for some of my thinking. Thanks for calling me to greater clarity in my efforts to communicate.

Q&A: Multiple Questions

Original Questions:

1. Compared to topical study in small group discussions where we can discuss from various passage from bible, if we stick to one passage don’t we miss other key principles from scripture about same topic? 

2. When we ask questions of what can we obey from the passage, should it be group obedience or as per what each person discovers? If it is based on what a person discovers then won’t we miss on key principles that they miss?

3. What shall we do if some members in the group are not obedient to their commitments made in last week?

Responses:

  1. The primary reason for sticking with one passage for each gathering is to insure that people who are less familiar with the Bible are not overwhelmed by jumping around from passage to passage. Coupled with this is the desire to truly hear from one section of God’s Word. If a group, exclusively comprised of Christians, wants to study multiple passages on a topic, they certainly can (most I have been in say something like, “I know we are not supposed to hyperlink, but…”) and probably will. But what will they do when there is a new believer or a lost person present? Will they notice? Will they care enough to make this commitment to their welfare? Scheduling a session every 4-6 weeks where you trace out the themes from multiple passages everyone has been studying together is one way to ensure that participants start noticing undergirding themes.
  2. For years I have always focused on individual responses of obedience because I believe the Holy Spirit can and does impress upon each individual what the Father wants to be done. But as I have become more understanding of collectivistic cultures (rather than the highly individualistic one I have lived in), I recognize the value of helping such people groups arrive at a “We will…” obedience statement. The use of “I will…” Statements was designed to overcome the common tendency of believers saying, “Someone ought to obey this passage by doing…” as a way of avoiding the call to becoming personally obedient. Rather than this approach resulting in missing a call to obedience, you and other participants can make sure that other “I will…” Statements are made, which may be stronger. The key is making sure the group is listening to God with an intention of responding to what he is calling us to do.
  3. Developing a proper response to disobedience is a significant issue in disciple making. There have been times when some coaches will not let the group move on to another passage until the last one has been obeyed. Others will choose to have a private conversation with the disobedient and stress the importance of obeying Jesus and giving the person another chance. When a group of new people persistently refuses to obey, then it is obvious there are no Persons of Peace among them. In every case it is critical that you personally model stating specific, measurable, action-oriented, realistic and time-bound “I will…” Statements and then follow through with your own obedience. Your example may call them to a new response to hearing from God. Fervent, persistent prayer for each participant should also precede the determination to discontinue a group, but there are cases where that is the proper response to persistent disobedience.

Q&A: What do you consider “specialized training”?

Original Question: “Finally, I’m wondering what specialized training includes, given that the training (equipping) of the church is in view in this text. If we assume that being gifted definitionally entails no specialized training, then once the gifted train the church for service, can those so trained “become” gifted, or does being trained rule that out? Or is it just that such training is not “specialized”? Or perhaps the training—say, for crossing cultures—is simply irrelevant to the question of being gifted, so that those trained by the gifted may be equipped for service, but whether they’re gifted for it is another matter altogether?”

Answer: Obviously, I did not do a good job in my original post of being specific and clear in my communication. As I have noted earlier, I have no objections to “specialized training.” I actually spend lots of time pondering the kinds of specialized training that many followers of Jesus need to become more fruitful in their efforts to imitate him. My main objection is the tendency of the Global North church to require extensive formal education before people are considered for ministry positions. We have developed a “professional clergy” mindset which precludes participation in disciple making.

Last Friday I taught lesson 12 for the Perspectives on the World Christian Movement course. I told a couple of global stories of breakthrough which are happening. One comes from Africa and the other from the U.S. Both examples are early in the process of multiplication. I intentionally chose these because they are not so fully developed that they feel light years away. I shared about the use of Discovery Groups in the process and touched on some specific examples where some of the “least likely” people are being used by God in powerful ways. After my two sections were competed a young lady (probably in her twenties) shared with me that she had heard about DBS while working at a Christian university and done some research. She started some groups and found that they multiplied quickly and a couple of simple churches had started among a couple of sports teams. University officials became concerned about the “out of control” spread of new groups and took actions which forced the efforts to “go underground.”

My heart sank! “What were they thinking?” Why didn’t they rejoice?

Systems tend to be self-perpetuating, thus they are often resistant to change. Here in the Global North we have a strong, formal education system which has become self-perpetuating. Teachers need students. Require credentialing and you have steady work. Some of that is good; some becomes troubling to me. But my greater concern is our failure to recognize that you do not lead with the structures of a historically older system, when starting new works. Keep it simple. Keep it in smaller modules so people do not have to leave their families and employment to “get training.”

I conflated two distinct topics: gifting and education. Clearly Paul touches on both in the Ephesians 4 passage, so there is overlap. But our discussion of these matters are complicated by each of us bringing “baggage” to the table.

Paul’s focus is that every member of the body becomes equipped for ministry. Jesus insured that such was possible by gifting the global church with “apostles, prophets, evangelists and pastor/teachers.” It takes all four for the church to become all Jesus envisions. Every fellowship should examine itself to identify which of those four (or five) functions do we high light. Which are missing? What must be done to address our deficiencies?

Some Assumptions on Gifting

We all enter discussions with assumptions, some examined and others that are more subliminal until they are brought into the light. Writing is one way to get them out into the light.

One of my assumptions is that a gift is an ability which greatly surpasses anything I could develop on my own. But I do not assume that with two different people the less gifted one could not surpass the other if he/she put more work into developing and practicing the gift. Let me share a couple of analogies which might make my thoughts more easily understood by someone else.

Michael Jordan vs. Larry Bird: an analogy from professional basketball. Two of the best NBA players of all time provide an interesting contrast. Both played on NBA teams which one multiple championships. Their careers overlapped. But I don’t want to focus on their playing careers, but their efforts toward coaching. I believe MJ was more gifted than Bird. His physical ability was through the roof. He could certainly out jump Bird. He was quicker, without a doubt. Larry was taller, but that was about the only advantage he had when it came to playing. But Bird had to use his mind and guile to overcome his deficiencies—and he did, over and over.

Bird’s challenges made him more equipped to become successful as a coach, as it turned out. Sometimes (but not always), the most gifted at doing something to a high level are not able to assist less capable people to succeed. Their reliance upon their gifting gave them great success. But every team is comprised of members with varying degrees of ability. A good coach helps each member maximize her abilities and also gets the group to learn to experience a synergy where “the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.”

Gifts can certainly give someone a “leg up,” but what one does with spiritual abilities is crucial, too. Paul’s letter to the Corinthians which we call 1 Corinthians certainly points us in this direction. The believers in that local church had incredible giftings, but it appears they were not often exercised with love (1 Corinthians chapters 12-14).

Since early this year (2021) I have spent a lot of time learning the fine art of wood turning. One of my friends invested greatly in my success. Jim Livingstone has made recommendations regarding the lathe I might buy and he also gave me several wood turning tools. To purchase those tools would cost me several hundred dollars. I am very appreciative! His counsel and this generous gift has sped up my learning curve. But I still have had to put lots of practice into wood turning. The gift has not replaced training, long hours of practice, and diligent efforts to overcome errors made along the way. But I have never attended any wood turning schools or classes.

I have never really felt gifted. No, I am not discounting the incredible deposits God has made in my life! But none of it comes easily. None. I am not a gifted speaker. I do it fairly well, some of the time, but it is usually fitful for me.

Wood working has been different than just about anything else I have ever tried. I can get totally “lost” in it. I can learn techniques and abilities more quickly than other turners, evidently. But I have 45+ years of relevant experience to draw from in the learning. I took three years in high school, even though they only offered two years. No, I did not fail. I bartered my way into a third year by doing some of the mill work that my teacher had previously done for the first year students. No one had ever done that before, so I wasn’t following someone else’s example. I was following my heart.

Creating path for Woodworking III opened the door for me working at an acoustic guitar factory during the summers before and during Bible College. Those experiences gave me an incredible learning opportunity. Unfortunately I never really had an apprenticeship, though. Yes, I memorized safety rules for six weeks and spent six more in basic drafting (while the woodworking shop was built), but I learned most of what I know on my own.

I’ve watched hundreds of hours of wood turning videos. I’ve spent hundreds more trying to imitate what I saw and then correcting the obvious errors I made. I have no formal training in wood turning.

DMM is not opposed to formal training. It is not opposed to Grad School or even getting a doctorate. I actually know several who hold doctorates and others who are pursuing them. As a general rule, though, Movement folks think the requirement that young people getting an “Engineer level” education prior to getting involved in cross cultural missions is wrong-headed. We probably don’t state this clearly enough, at times. But then there are times when I am equally sure people are “hearing” things we are not saying.

One professor friend made an interesting statement to me a few years ago. I shared that I struggle some with “imposter syndrome,” especially in the missions arena. My misgivings come from two fronts: my lack of formal training and my lack of living cross culturally for any significant time. He said, “John, be thankful there are many things you have not had to unlearn!”

Q&A: Is this “a Comprehensive Pauline Account of Leadership Gifts/Roles?

Original question(s): “Do you think Paul has clearly delimited distinctive roles in mind here? Relatedly, do you think this is a comprehensive Pauline account of leadership gifts/roles? These are general questions about what you think Paul is doing in this text, the answers to which will, I assume, relate to the way you are using the text to answer your DMM-specific question. Watson’s reduction to two categories at the end of the post seems to indicate that you take Paul’s categories to be sort of broad strokes that get at tendencies. Is that fair?”

My Response: Questions and answers always have a context. Greg and I both know that from our life experiences and our efforts to study the Bible. In 1 Corinthians Paul responds to numerous questions which he was asked via a letter that had been sent to him from the congregation in Corinth. Many commentators on those sections have wished to have the actual letter and additional background information so we could explore Paul’s responses in that greater and more detailed context. It is possible some of our teachings from those sections would be transformed by a clearer picture of the specific context which Paul and the Corinthian believers knew all too well.

I personally read Ephesians as a circular letter written for all the churches in the Roman province of Asia (along the coast of modern-day Turkey). While he spent the longest time in Ephesus of any of the places where he made disciples of Jesus and nurtured emerging communities of faith, Paul never refers to anyone there by name. This is so different than what he does in his other letters. I think Paul is addressing a broader context than is true of his letters written to Thessalonica, Philippi or Corinth. Ephesians speaks of “church” in a more universal sense, rather than a more particular sense, in my studied opinion.

When I think of Pauline writing about leadership and gifting, as a whole, I see more diversity than uniformity. Ephesians 4 is one of three diverse passages from his pen that list “spiritual gifts” (1 Corinthians 12 and Romans 12 are the other two). Laying these three lists alongside one another and it is striking how many different roles/functions are listed. While there is some overlap of these three, there is great diversity.

My personal reading of Ephesians as a circular letter prompts me to see those four or five roles (A.P.E.S-T) as leadership categories which take their unique distinctions from one another out of other more specific usages. Because of this nuanced reading, I often reference “apostolic, prophetic, evangelistic, pastoral.” While there are people who function fully, with incredible divine empowerment, in these roles, Paul seems to me to be addressing the need for everyone in the universal body of Christ to have exposure and training from all in order for us to be equipped for ministry. Not everyone in the church will become an apostle, but there is some apostolic thinking that will and can enrich their efforts to live out the life of Jesus. Not all will be prophets, but Paul certainly admonishes the people in the Corinthian church to “earnestly desire spiritual gifts” especially the gift of prophecy. While many of us may not feel as out-going (never met a stranger) as someone we think of when we read the word “evangelist,” all of us are to become evangelistic.

In this swirl of Spirit-empowered context, I addressed a specific question, from a specific context where the prophet, pastor and teacher roles are much more emphasized. The questioner is asking “What about those roles? DMM seems to be emphasizing the roles of evangelists and apostles, in working among the lost. What about the roles we talk about being used primarily among those who are already saved? Where are they in the DMM world of thought and emphasis?”

I wrote a response to a more specific question than many of the readers of my blog realized. I posted a link to that article in a social media in hopes that others would click through and consider what I have written. One friend responded at the place of that link, rather than here in the blog. Context matters, greatly. Many people don’t want to dig deep enough to discern the nuances that context can create. They want snippets here and there. Just give us quick easy answers, don’t make us think or dig too deep.

I will explore this further in some additional posts. I do not want to overestimate your interest, even if you have subscribed to this blog.

Follow-up Questions

Today I will be posting some questions which my last blog post prompted. They come from my friend, Greg. We go to church together and have talked about DMM on multiple occasions. Greg has some concerns about aspects of DMM and I appreciate him and his heart for truth and making disciples. He posted the following questions on my Facebook wall, where I had shared a link to my previous blog article, https://dmmcoach.com/2021/09/09/what-about-the-other-gifts/. If you have not read that article, yet, Greg’s questions will be more meaningful if you read it first.

Thanks, John. Various questions arise. We can talk in person if commenting becomes ponderous.

1. Do you think Paul has clearly delimited distinctive roles in mind here? Relatedly, do you think this is a comprehensive Pauline account of leadership gifts/roles?These are general questions about what you think Paul is doing in this text, the answers to which will, I assume, relate to the way you are using the text to answer your DMM-specific question. Watson’s reduction to two categories at the end of the post seems to indicate that you take Paul’s categories to be sort of broad strokes that get at tendencies. Is that fair?

2. My second question, regarding the evangelist, is threefold.

(A.) I’m having trouble distinguishing it from your account of the apostle. “Apostolic workers are those who intentionally go to new places,” and evangelists are “able to cross many cultural barriers” and “intentionally bring good news into dark places.” Both seem to be about “going.” Is it that you see evangelists as a subset of apostolic goers who specifically cross cultural barriers?

(B.) I’m curious where you derive the cross-cultural component of the evangelist from. Obviously, one needn’t cross cultures to bring good news into dark places. But more the point, what about Paul’s claim suggests crossing cultures is a specific feature of this gift?

(C.) The phrase I’m struggling most with (as you’ll have guessed) is “without requiring specialized training.” As with the cross-cultural dimension of your definition, I’m wondering where this assertion comes from. It seems to me that, on the one hand, this is a claim that you (i.e., those who understand “gifts” this way) would be interested in appending to each of the gifts. Because it is a gift (and not an accomplishment of “training works”?), the apostle’s ability to be apostolic requires no training, and so on. On the other hand, it seems to me that this is a commitment DMMers are bringing to the text, which makes no claims about the means through which God bestows gifts. Isn’t it the case that DMM is already committed methodologically to leaders not needing specialized training? If so, does that lead you to find an affirmation of that presupposition in the definition of gifting?

Finally, I’m wondering what specialized training includes, given that the training (equipping) of the church is in view in this text. If we assume that being gifted definitionally entails no specialized training, then once the gifted train the church for service, can those so trained “become” gifted, or does being trained rule that out? Or is it just that such training is not “specialized”? Or perhaps the training—say, for crossing cultures—is simply irrelevant to the question of being gifted, so that those trained by the gifted may be equipped for service, but whether they’re gifted for it is another matter altogether?

More than enough for one comment. 😬 I look forward to the dialogue.

[NOTE: I use social media (Facebook and Twitter) as a place to post invitations for deeper conversations. I prefer having those deeper conversations in person, or here on my blog. Others do not agree that this is best, but it is my choice to this point in time. I do this because I want my deeper conversations to be with people who want to converse. I do not like the “drive-by shootings” which often happen on social media. I want a real dialogue. I plan to respond to each of Greg’s questions here in future posts. I shared that with him and will post my responses here. Due to some travels I may not make my usual Tuesday and Thursday morning times, but will try to stay regular in my responses. After I finish with those I will return to the list of questions which arose earlier this year at the Salt & Light Conference.]